How to avoid the dreaded "boyfriend zone"

Write up some reports on how these dates are going down to give us a better idea of what's going on. My guess is they look too much like dates. Think of it like you're just hanging out and get comfortable being physical often.

Hi Jack,

I'll try to write some reports up if I have time. Basically my dates go like this:

1st dates are usually at bars or lounges (quiet, dimly lit). I sit close to the girl and maintain strong eye contact throughout. I try to be physical when possible (depending on how uptight the girl is) with some light touching on the arm or leg but thats it. I usually let the girls do most of the talking. At the end I pay for the drinks (maybe this is what I'm doing wrong?)

2nd dates I try to get them back to my place and cook something together. While cooking I try being as physical as possible - kissing, touching, etc...

Thats the general theme of my dates.

I'm open to hearing better ideas for dates. Being that its friggin cold where I live there's not many outdoor activities to do this time of year.

Based on your quick write up there are a couple of things right off the bat. 

Not leading. 

If she's doing all the talking that means she's leading. She gets used to this, making it hard for you to recover and become the man in charge when its time to escalate. If you were doing a better job of steering the conversation, that gets her comfortable with taking cues from you and letting you be in charge. That's the role she more likely wants. Then when its time to get physical and escalate, she's had a whole night of practice following your lead and feels at ease. Leading can be physically moving her around, steering the conversation, playfully ordering her to do things, choosing where you go, what you do and so on. There's loads of community literature on this, I would start right here at Manwhore.org.

Paying.

stahp!

I really like MW's take on the Pay/Don't Pay issue...

You pay for the primary stuff and she pays for secondary stuff. IE you buy drinks, she brings quarters for pool or whatever. That way you don't look like a cheap asshole and she's contributing.

Without details it's tough to say what's REALLY going on here. It sounds a lot like a problem with what you are communicating to these girls.

But a couple tips I CAN give you are

1. On a date, you should be escalating. I like to get a kiss ASAP. I avoid postponing it AT ALL COSTS. I almost always get denied at first, but I expect that. MW calls it inception. If you go for it, get denied and don't make a big deal about it. She starts to game herself and rationalize reasons why she wants to. Then you go for it later and get it.

2. Try to play the larger game. (not just between you and her). A few ways I've done this in the past, with a lot of success, is to show up early and game some girls. Especially the hot bartenders. I had a girl from POF that I was meeting at the bar and I did all that. When she was walking up she saw me hanging out with this other chick I had just met. It was def UH OH time for her. You could see it on her face. She was like, "OH shit! I better put my game face on or some other girl's going to butt in on MY date." Then the whole night the first chick was orbiting like crazy. By the time we left the bar together it was all over. I didn't have to do a damn thing, just walked to her car and that was that.

One thing you want to stay away from is the mentality of "they are doing this to me". It is definitely not them. They are more than happy to fuck the right guy lol. Realize you need to figure out what's going on, and fix it. 

I'm in a writing mood tonight, maybe I'll bust something out. 

Are you playing it safe?

@Jack - By leading the conversation do you mean I should do most of the talking about myself or asking most of the questions about her? What topics do you talk about? Do you bring up sexual topics on the 1st date?

@Infinity - thanks for the tips as well. How soon into the date do you go for the kiss? I've read differing points of view on this.

Some say delay the first kiss to build the sexual tenison, others say go for the makeout right away, its confusing which advice to take.

Also how do you seed getting the girl back to your place?

@Manwhore - I agree with you, it totally must be me. I've had girls admit to having one night stands with other dudes but with me they want to wait because I'm "special".

@Gnarly - I think I am playing it safe in a way because I'm never sure when I'm being too aggressive or not aggressive enough. For example the other day I had a girl over my house for 2nd date. I kept kissing her but she kept stopping the kiss because shes "not an affectionate person" and "doesn't do this on 2nd date". I would then pull back like Infinity says and then try again a short while later. After several attempts of  trying to escalate on the sofa she got up and left. I said nothing and remained non-reactive and she goes "you don't have to be a dick about it". LOL I didn't even say anything dickish to her, I even walked her to the bus stop WTF?!?

Thanks again Jack, will definately try doing more leading.

So I'm wondering what to do for the 3rd date with this chick considering on our 2nd date she ran out of my apartment because I was being too persistent LOL

Should I suggest movie night at her place or will that seem too pushy because she knows I will just try to escalate on her again?

I did an "art walk" last night. Basically a series of venues downtown in walking distance that all have exhibits up as part of the event. I found it to be a great opportunity for leading ie. pulling girls around. It got me thinking about how you could set yourself up to lead. I would recommend maybe thinking about your next date like that, putting yourself in a situation or place that is conducive to leading.. A walk somewhere, a gallery, a park, museum (?). I'm just spitballing. Arcade even? Somewhere where you feel like you might feel comfortable dragging the girl around, showing her things.. Keep in mind you might want to think about an isolation strategy beforehand.

^^Pure genius right there

Well, you should have some core mentalities in place first. You should know for a FACT that girls like sex. You also have to have the ability to lead (Like Jack pointed out, because girls need you to lead them through the process) and you want to be setting a TONE for your interaction from the start.

So if you have the belief that girls like sex, and you know that you have to set the tone and lead... How would you go about doing all that? What I'm getting at here is how would you do all that from the start.