Former FWB - advice would be appreciated *Long Post*

It sounds like your average, boring, bickering filled interaction.  This isn't man to woman, it's some chump shit man. Dude, why are you being so lame?

First off, why did you argue with her about the bed being too loud. That's some gay shit, you should have been whispering dirty things in her ear and letting her know that she's your lil slut and all your roomies know she is getting fucked. That should have been framed into something exciting for the both of you. Then you get into some logical arguement halfway through sex, you should have been wrestling with her and giving her kisses. Who cares about her body image issues blah blah blah you're the one in charge make her feel sexy.  You don't kiss her after blowjobs, what do you eat pussy with a dental dam as well?..

Then she curves you over text and you're upset but truthfully your texting was boring and gave off a vibe that you were too cool for her anyways. Like seriously dude, you're the one that's gotta Initiate the good vibes. 

Lastly, you tried to win her over with logical reasons why you want to be with her. You guys weren't even in a good place at the time either, you're not gonna argue her into a relationship. 

Obviously you guys had something good going at one point. Stop being a fag and start being awesome. Be charismatic and let her know that you want to get some froyo and play naked twister with her and play with her sexy boobies. 

It sounds like your average, boring, bickering filled interaction.  This isn't man to woman, it's some chump shit man. Dude, why are you being so lame?

First off, why did you argue with her about the bed being too loud. That's some gay shit, you should have been whispering dirty things in her ear and letting her know that she's your lil slut and all your roomies know she is getting fucked. That should have been framed into something exciting for the both of you. Then you get into some logical arguement halfway through sex, you should have been wrestling with her and giving her kisses. Who cares about her body image issues blah blah blah you're the one in charge make her feel sexy.  You don't kiss her after blowjobs, what do you eat pussy with a dental dam as well?..

Then she curves you over text and you're upset but truthfully your texting was boring and gave off a vibe that you were too cool for her anyways. Like seriously dude, you're the one that's gotta Initiate the good vibes. 

Lastly, you tried to win her over with logical reasons why you want to be with her. You guys weren't even in a good place at the time either, you're not gonna argue her into a relationship. 

Obviously you guys had something good going at one point. Stop being a fag and start being awesome. Be charismatic and let her know that you want to get some froyo and play naked twister with her and play with her sexy boobies. 

This is the shit I needed to hear. A kick in the face. 

1) Yeah man, no excuse, I was drunk as shit, was not thinking on my feet, and just flat out got angry as fuck. Like I had been eating her out for 15 min, and NOW she was worried about being too loud? Shit had me upset lol. I think that's a pretty sick reframe, I also could've just positioned her to the other part of my bed as well. 

2) Yeah man, that was just some weird ass shit on my end. 

3) I tried to re-establish the buyer/seller frame because man, she had curved me for v-day, was super aloof about hanging out (wouldn't even fucking respond), had to last ditch effort get my fucking books and used that as a pretext to pop in. Didn't realize it at the time but I got needy and pushed for it instead of letting it breathe (she was on her period and could've been a likely reason why she went MIA as well; she made a light shit test about that that I flat out failed. "Oh well i'm on my period .... since that's all you would use me for anyway." I just said "jeez" - taking it seriously and couldn't keep it light hearted, the way she wanted the conversation to steer towards.

I 100% agree that it starts and ends with me. I gotta bring the good vibes. However, it's now been a month since we've fucked. 2-3 weeks ish since i've dropped off the flowers. You legitimately don't think she intentionally set me up just to know she has me? It feels like she's in control of the situation. Furthermore, you don't think I have overextended myself? I wanted to put some distance between us because I was acting like a little bitch. 

Its not worth it going back as this "new and improved" sexy guy that you seem to have lost touch with. 

Move on dude. From what you described, she'll probably come back to you and THEN it may have a chance. You're too invested in this to actually make headway..cause you'll be trying to make her like you. Dont do that. You know how this goes dude. Every guy in the world has had this happen..they like a girl, get overly attached and get dumped and then pout about it on forums lol.

Be above that. It's retarded that none of us actually realize how this story plays out..like reading Goldilocks thinking she'll actually enjoy all 3 soups. Pff

Yeah man. So funny how the dynamics shifted considering she was super insecure about me liking her before haha. I figured I'd just let it fade out, unfortunately she hasn't let that happen completely just yet since she keeps reaching out via IG/snap, although with the most recent shit of me being more of a dick than normal because I assumed she was reaching out for validation as opposed to actually wanting to hang out, she might finally stop reaching out. Normally, I'd ease the tension and say shit like "haha i bet you make a cute face when you're jealous," but I just didn't want to give her THAT due to the aforementioned reasons. 

But in any case, yeah man, I've been in this exact scenario before while I was living in Colombia this past summer, except the girl started screaming in a rage. I just laughed as she stormed out telling me to fuck off, I just ghosted her and she reached out on her own accord a few days later. But it's the CRYING, fuck, I always fall for that shit lmao and feel bad. 

Yeah man sounds like she has you wrapped around her finger physically and emotionally (whatever the case may have been beforehand)

About sex/ bed being loud. As Meow said, you have to own that situation and be bigger than the environment. Because you are the authority and not your roomates, she can give herself to you in safety and start to be present with you and scream ;)

Crying, shittesting, even trolling you at times are her ways of seeing if you can handle her emotional range. You can't get flung around by her emotions, you gotta be unaffected, almost stoic while being able to emote with her and address her problems IF they are real, genuine concerns. 

When you're saying you'll be exclusive for her and buying her flowers to appease her emotions, you know you've lost touch with what attracted her to you in the first place

Like others advised, it's probs better for you to let go of her for now, find your ground again, play around with other girls. Then when she comes back (when you're fully okay with losing her) make sure you set the correct dynamic - you're the prize and you won't tolerate her bullshit.

Glad we're on the same page. One thing I will mention is between the two crying sessions, so after she cried due my bed, and while waiting for our uber, I had her bent over in the living, and I was fingerblasting her over my chair on the kitchen top. Yeah man, the flowers weren't the best move. I think the flowers could've been a good move if I could've countered with a lot more charisma and outcome independence, but I was too serious. I felt the correct move would've been to ghost her ass right after she bailed on v-day, because at that point she took the gloves off. Although to be clear, we were in a short de facto relationship at that time. (i.e. we were spending almost every night together at each other's place for a few weeks) 

So I become bigger than the environment by superimposing my frame through reframes? 

I'm curious why you'd think this would be a healthy relationship for this girl to stay in? You sound like a dickhole. It's called "Friends with Benefits" not Assholes with Benefits looool 

Because there was no malice behind my actions. I am not some shitty person who is going to intentionally hurt someone who I care a lot about. I also don't plan on making her cry a habit or doing shitty things a habit. Up until this point, her and I had productive conversations whenever she had legitimate concerns. [i.e. she asked if I see this becoming a relationship about 1.5 months in and I was pretty up front that I wouldn't be seeing her every day basically if I didn't see this becoming a relationship, she wanted to meet my friends, etc.] My goal was never to hurt her feelings and I recognize that what I did was immature and shitty. I don't know how else to put this: If she could just feel who I am at my core, she would know I would do my best to treat her well and find a solution to any potential problems that may arise in the future. There's just no way I would repeat these mistakes. Also, she's been in fucked up relationships before though so I imagine this all scared the shit out of her and reminded her of her shitty ex BFs. It would require her to take a leap of faith that I am in fact different. I also get that giving me a second shot is not the prudent thing for her to do. 

However, she is still reaching out via social media every so often. Not to mention passive aggressive messages by liking a bunch of shit on social media that definitely seems directed at me. [i.e some meme suggesting i'm just a fuckboy and she should have known better, when you leave an unhealthy relationship and start enjoying life meme, and that one meme that says women are foolish to pretend they are equal to men, they are far superior - so if you give her any crap, be ready to receive a ton of shit.]

I put some space between her and I to collect myself for the past month or so. Although my gut has been telling me to just call her. 

Don't do it aeq. You're in that phase where you feel like you can make a difference and things can be hunkydory again. Time heals and you need to just let go . 

I'll tell you what mang.. never give the "I want to be exclusive with you" when y'all are fighting like this. You know that doesn't make sense, lol. 

You ever get her flowers when you weren't fighting? Or do anything "nice" for her? Doing stuff like that only when you've had a fight is also a no no. Got to set the precedent beforehand otherwise it comes off like a typical chode gimmick, loses any value it could potentially have and the next time you go to give her flowers she's reminded of OP so to speak. Ha! I'm sure you can understand all that as well. 

Anyway it's clear you think she's special but you're doing a poor job of making her feel that way. You don't necessarily have to make her feel like "the one", but she does have to feel special. At this point you've got to be vulnerable, and "fight" for her. 

What's the nicest thing you've ever said to her? How do you compliment her? How do you make her feel beautiful? Have you ever made her flutter inside? What sort of things do you find unique about her? Do you talk to her while you're fucking her and/or making her cum? Ever launched into a rant or something similar and seen her react to it in a positive way? What does she like about you? 

Dude i KNOW. I actually wanted to do something different. I stepped outside my comfort zone - I've gone from one extreme end of the pendulum (dick) and went the other way  and have been trying to find the middle ground.

I haven't gotten her flowers, but I've done small nice gestures after we were sleeping together for a while. (I.e. helped her pack for her ski trip and carried her shit like boots and stuff, took her out to a nice dinner and held the door, brought us food when I was on the way to her place) Yeah, honestly she didn't feel special ... she really really wanted to meet my friends and was supposed to meet my friends but she traveled every weekend so it was tough to get my friend's schedules and hers to sync up.

Nicest things I've said? I told her she's incredibly smart, compassionate, and a strong independent woman (this was after her and i being hella vulnerable to each other about personal stuff) and that I appreciate how she has been able to not get jaded by the difficult shit she's faced and allow that to taint her view of the world. I don't think I've done a good job of making her feel beautiful, although I did make her feel sexy. (it was a very loverboy way of just coming up behind her, nuzzling my beard into her neck and feeling her body up while telling her "mm so sexy," but said in a loverboy type of way, not in a I want to fuck the shit out of you way.) Although we did super intimate things like shower each other and just caress each other's bodies. When ever she got dressed up to go out I made sure to tell her she looked sexy - making her feel sexy wasn't the issue. Maybe I made her flutter inside, I don't know. but it wasn't at any particular moment, but maybe rather the entire dynamic? We couldn't have enough of each other. From the moment we had sex she'd be telling me come over at 4am, call me drunk to come over - like honestly both of us are in super competitive programs so like all our responsibilities/friends basically went down the toilet for each other for a 2 week period lol. 

Unique: I mean she's a smarter more successful version of me in my field (She's at the best school in my city). She's a balance of being incredibly smart, compassionate and sympathetic to people's respective plights, while still also being able to cut loose. She is SO sympathetic for people's different life situations, seems very nonjudgmental despite coming from a 1% background - it was honestly such a breath of fresh air for her to see the other side without having actually been on that side. Despite being hyper-successful, she does not seem fixated on money and has dated dudes who have been broke as fuck. She was not needy, but assertive of her position the entire time, all the while making sure I never felt pressured. We have super similar outlooks in how we approach situations - had similar dynamics with our respective siblings - sometimes felt like she was literally just taking the fucking words out of my mouth. I was in disbelief at times lol. Like we only dated briefly - 2 months, but shit man, it just felt so right. Neediness was a foregone thought despite us hanging out every day almost at times.

Sex: Yes, we dirty talked. Think doggy but her laying flat, i'd be firmly choking her with one hand, while telling her "mm i love pounding that cute lil pink pussy of yours." or some variation of me telling her that my cock loves ravishing that pussy or me telling her how good her pussy and clit tasted. First night while fucking and I was pounding her while both of us looked at the mirror I threw her phone right next to her and told her to start filming and we basically kept filming since - girl might even still have some videos of her and i still since they're on her phone lol. She was super into the dirty talk, dirty talked back and and made it a point to tell me how much she loved the dirty talk. Always dirty talked. It was pretty difficult to get her off - she'd be slobbing on my knob and she got herself off by rubbing her clit, then finally last time we hung out and I ate her out is when I made her cum w/o her help. Ironic lol. Funny you say that cuz she mentioned "i don't even know what you'll be able to get me to do if you make me cum" at one point a few weeks before things fell apart.

Rant: No. Not a rant, but she felt super RELIEVED when I told her I liked her. She didn't really believe it tho and was always worried that she knew me more than I knew her. It didn't help that my tinder app went off and it was always one of my most recently opened apps - but I told her she had nothing to worry about. However, rather than just dismiss the I don't know her I just smiled at her and told her - "look .. i KNOW you.... just ask something you've mentioned to me." I wasn't trying to seek approval, it was just like - this is cute, but i actually listened. I then listed off a bunch of shit she mentioned about her family, problems, certain dynamics, etc. She just smiled and we cuddled for a bit. 

Likes about me: She said I'm smart, and has implied that I have a lot of grit because of how far I've come despite my background. She also said that I'm a huge sweetheart. I had to explain to her that "i don't wanna scare you but sometimes I can be a dick ... but i'm working on that." She got pretty scared when I said that and mentioned how all she saw was a sweetheart so far. She thinks I'm fun, outgoing, but never explicitly mentioned a lot of the reasons she liked me beyond these things. She did like that I like to party as well and wasn't just a book worm. 

Yeah, I haven't fought at all. I basically threw in the towel once she gave me the "I'll think about it." She keeps reaching out via IG by tagging me in stuff. I ghosted her this past Sunday or Monday, then she also DM'd me last night, mentioning some other photo. The main issue I have with fighting for her is keeping my emotions in check  - I have only fucked 2 girls since, which did help, although only to a certain degree.. [ one regular and a new girl ] Being able to emote, whie holding frame so to speak. I thought I wouldn't run into this situation with female abundance but is only helping keep my emotions in check to a certain degree. Meditating / constantly trying to be present has been SO helpful though. Like actually far more helpful. So when you say vulnerable you don't actually mean tell her all the reasons why I like her, but rather show through my actions, which also means being the one to swallow their pride first (since we're both being prideful at the moment. Also, she knows where I stand at this point, but presumably thinks my action was disengenuous because no follow-up?)

Any suggestions on how to fight for her? Friends recommend I just try taking her for a drink, shooting the shit, and keeping things light to counter how heavy I had made everything with the flowers, if anything.   

Jihad: I'm not really sure I can make a difference, truthfully haha. But this is why I'm in this shit for, man. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. I am not disillusioned about the situation whatsoever. However, my default has always been to throw in the towel in these scenarios. 

SIDE NOTE: I called the feisty girl the other day MW (FROM WAYYYYY back in the day) while waiting for a booty call to arrive lol. I haven't spoken to that girl in YEARS! Holy shit! She did like me! But honestly I was just waaaaaaay too needy w/her at that moment in time. Even though the conversation was very platonic on a surface level, the subtext was painfully clear that she was so happy to hear from me and would be thrilled at the idea of hanging out haha. She's actually considering going to law school so that was sorta the angle I took to help her w/her apps since she wants to go to a top school. Didn't really feel the need to come in hot. Home girl was complaining about the dude she's seeing and her ex bf in all of 10 minutes haha. 

Edit: I forget what episode of your podcast but you literally cover this topic - so i'll eventually get around to re-listening to the part that touches on "fighting for her" and see if I can also figure it out myself. 

Jihad and Meow there's the scoop let's craft some "Silly and Sincere" reengagement texts that hint at logistics.

"I miss my favorite bathtoy. Scrub a dub in my tub"

Thanks lol. FYI I think she's out of town right now. I'll fire that off soon tho. 

No hold off we're still formulating. That's the direction we're moving in 

kk. 

Which girl are we trying to re-engage? Aeq is ther another girl? This law school one?

I'm so lost lol

Main LS girl from thread and thanks for the help.

Oh right. Lol

Please read: http://manwhore.org/forum/content/former-fwb-advice-would-be-appreciated-long-post#comment-101445

Disclaimer: The relationship area is not my best skillset :)

looking at this txt, I think its awesome. The only thing that 'gets' at me is that it may be a little too silly. Isn't the tension pretty high right now with this girl? Worried she'd read it and think its out of character for you.

Then again, might be best if you do intially sidestep it cause you're txting after all and u can get real later...yay or nay?

Do you have any other notable things you used to do? The shower one is good. Others we can stem ideas from?

Mang that's why I posted the 2nd link.. he lays out a bunch of content to use in crafting texts. There's dozens of routes to go I just wanted to make it a group effort. Kinda like an Aequitas gangbang, but no homo

Honestly I feel like I fleshed out most of what we did. Film while having sex, i taught her how to play poker the night i banged her at her place for the first time (2nd date) (She was basically force-feeding me shots and still to this day denies trying to get me drunk to bang me lol), and poker was related to her school work at some point so I helped her with that at some point.

Edit: Maybe a little silly but I think it's time to be silly and bring back that light hearted dynamic. 

It's only gay if you like it. 

My b my b

Think, thinkk, thinnnnnnkkkkk

brain blast!

I dont got shit..lol

But if you use the rubber ducky line

send this photo with it:

Jihad wtf mang. Pressure seal? Can't pee when someone's watching? Performance anxiety? 

"Look just remember the poker and alcohol tactic is only for me.. ok? :p" 

Stuff like that. C'mon Jihad and Meow!

Been thinking about getting another big wheeler. What say I pick you up in a day or so and we ride.

Can't see the photo.  

"Sup chickiepoo what're the chances I still whoop your butt in poker :P"

"I miss my snowbunny, I hope the uggs and hot coco have been treatin yah well :) "   <----If this even applies to where you live

"Sup gangsta kitty, I miss that killer poker face of yours :P"

"Hey buhbs remember those videos of us we made"...."was just thinking, how much do you think we could make off of those if we sell them lol"..."we are pretty gawd damn sexy :P"

"Hey ms. sourpatchbooty, i'm so sick of my friends telling me i'm bad a poker"...."I liked the game better when it waas just you, me, and that tequila"

My brain is currently fried and this is the best I got right now! but I will be back with the big guns

Bahahaha I'm so stealing this for myself 

I cant even get my dick up for reengagement rn...:(

Yes i have PA lol. I'll resend the photo when i have a better internet connection yo.

also, im gay

Oh I forgot I would call her a koala and then the v-day card I got her a sloth that was hanging so we can refer to either. 

I miss my lil koala bath sponge. Scrub a dub in my tub.

I miss my lil sloth bath sponge. Scrub a dub in my tub. 

She uses the word shmexy a lot as well. 

Aequitas, can you describe how she recently was sending you IG messages and how you ghosted her in more detail. I'm just glancing through the entire thread and i'm trying to get a better idea of whats going on! Sounds like some strange passive aggressive shit, but she can't be that mad though if she is reaching out to you.

Sure thing.

So she tagged me in a photo that I actually couldn't see - said it was unavailable so I just simply didn't respond. A few days later she tags me in a photo I liked and mentions that she likes this photo as well. "I liked this one too!" all i wrote was "Life of a procrstinator haha" a few hours later and she didn't respond. (The meme had to deal with studying/being a procrastinator) I didn't exactly make it easy for her to respond either tho haha.

Wait what? I thought she was trolling you. Sounds like she is just reaching out and being friendly.

So that was more just reaching out and being friendly for sure. The other stuff not so much. Guess we'll only find out by firing off the text. 

Too bad shit hit the fan with her i would've loved to have had her as my date, especially 'cuz my roommate has a free spare ticket haha.

Yeah I imagine she will be pretty happy to hear from you cuz sounds like she's been trying to strike up convo with you lol

I genuinely am not sure. Pumped to fire a text off once we decide. Also got a prom event tonight to look forward to where i get tons of free drink tix. 

Too bad shit hit the fan w/her would've been sick to have had her as my date. o wells guess ill just do my thing.

We decide on a reengagement text btw? 

I like sloth one!

"I miss my fav sloth bath sponge. Scrub a dub in my tub." 

Firing that off unless anyone says otherwise in next hour or so

Well shoulda mentioned that earlier dookie wonder.

Text her, "Hey can you settle a fierce debate I've been having?"

Oops.

This is where we're at.

Me: I miss my fav sloth bath sponge. Scrub a dub in my tub.

2 hours later 

Her; lol whatttt *Cryying/laughing emoji*

Me: As in I miss you, dummy. 

[i doubled down as opposed to moving on from the topic to let really let her know I'm down for her, with a bit a playfulness. I anticipate she's going to throw some shit my way lol, and considered double texting to move threads, but I wanted that to sit. Not opposed to double texting in a day or so to a new thread since she may ghost lol]]

When she responds with some sort of confirmation be like.. "Do lil koalas like drink tickets? Or is it just sexy lil koalas that do.."

Why the fuck would you put dummy on the end? That that passive aggressive shit coming out?

No no I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive. I was trying to be cute like silly.

Did ti really come across really passive aggressive?

It feels mildly angry/annoyed but I doubt it'll be a deal breaker.

Got it. Fuck.

Yes and it's always been your problem. Good luck