CLA + Creatine

What's CLA? Also what do you know about fat burner pills? 

CLA = Conjugated Linoleic Acid

The pills themselves look  alot like Omega 3/Fish Oil pills if you've ever seen those.

Basically I've heard everything from it helps maintain muscle mass to helps burn off body fat. Most of these are however claims and there are both articles saying that it does do what it's claimed to do but then there are articles that say it doesn't do shit. I guess I'm more interested in experiences.

For fat burners, it depends on the type, there are a wide range, like thermogenics, there are some that are just appetite suppressors but are classified as fat burners, as well as some that just boost energy. Most thermogenics are illegal that I'm aware of in Canada at least. Or they are legal for a bit until they get banned.

Stuff like ephedrine is a thermogenic

Stuff like Roxy Lean (Bpi product) I would say is more of a aid to stop you from being hungry, that's what I experienced when I first tried that product.

Stuff like Ripped Freak gives you crazy energy. 

All classified as fat burners though.

Realistically I don't rely on any of these products, if anything just use them to supplement my diet and fitness plan. If I want to spend the extra cash that is. I try to aim to use them when I'm down to that last bit of fat to melt off. Tbh a lot of fat burners are just crammed with stimulants as well, so it makes sense where the energy comes from and stimulants can make you sick if you're sensitive to that shit, so the appetite suppressing makes sense as well. 

There are however, some natural fat burning products geared towards metabolism boosting. Where they will work to rev your metabolism, so you can burn fat more efficiently. I know a lot of these products contain a lot of extracts from plants and what not as well. Specifically spices from what I can remember.

Hm interesting. I'm already a heater might as well be a cold weather heater

Yeah man, I feel you there. I sweat like crazy.. winter, summer, spring, whatever. Always sweating, especially when I sleep. With the fan on and windows open as well. It's mental. Great when it comes down to fat loss and maintaining a specific body fat, but otherwise you gotta watch those sweat marks on clothing and what not. Dark clothing is a usual go-to LOL

Yo AP_Grappler might want to find yourself a good authentic (read: Chinese) accupuncturist and herbalist.

I had sweaty palms and feet all the time. Went to the doctors, they said yeah we can do a surgery to remove your sweatglands and cure your problem. Went to accupuncturist and they explained this was a symptom of my body being out of whack.

3 sessions and it was gone, taken care of. This might be what's going on with you. Better to catch it now before that leads to bigger health complications down the line.

Yeah I don't sweat like that at all lol. 

Examine.com is a great website for determining what supplements are worthwhile. 

LEVEL OF EVIDENCE	EFFECT	CHANGE	MAGNITUDE OF EFFECT SIZE	SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS	COMMENTS
A	HDL-C			63% See all 15 studies	Insufficient evidence to support significant influences on HDL-C
A	Weight			75% See all 21 studies	CLA is considered ineffective for weight loss to the high degree of unreliability in the results, with most evidence suggesting no effects and some sparse evidence to suggest... show
A	Fat Mass			50% See all 19 studies	Evidence is too unreliable to conclude an inhernet effect of CLA on fat mass. There may be a context-dependent reduction in body fat and explanation for the observed variability,... show
A	Lean Mass		Minor	54% See all 13 studies	Some evidence that CLA can preserve lean mass during fat loss in an obese cohort of patients, but even in this subgroup the results are highly unreliable.
A	Insulin Sensitivity			70% See all 12 studies	For the most part, ineffective; too unreliable to reach any conclusions in regards to the efficacy of CLA. There appears to be some manner of interaction, but both sensitization... show

creatine 

LEVEL OF EVIDENCE	EFFECT	CHANGE	MAGNITUDE OF EFFECT SIZE	SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS	COMMENTS
A	Power Output		Strong	100% See all 65 studies	Creatine is the reference compound for power improvement, with numbers from one meta-analysis to assess potency being "Able to increase a 12% improvement in strength to... show
A	Muscle Creatine Content		Strong	80% See all 18 studies	Creatine supplementation is the reference compound for increasing muscular creatine levels; there is variability in this increase, however, with some nonresponders.
A	Lean Mass		Minor	100% See all 19 studies	Does appear to have inherent lean mass building properties, but a large amount of research is confounded with water weight gains (difficult to assess potency).
A	Weight		Strong	100% See all 28 studies	Appears to have a large effect on increasing overall weight due to water retention in persons who respond to creatine supplementation. Degree of increase is variable.
A	Hydration		Notable	100% See all 9 studies	Appears to be quite notable due to the increase in water weight in skeletal muscle tissue following creatine supplementation.
A	Anaerobic Running Capacity		Minor	66% See all 19 studies	Appears to increase anaerobic cardiovascular capacity, not to a remarkable degree however.

So who's got the scoop on thermogenic fat burners? I'm down to try a couple 

Really accupuncture? I don't know anyone who's done it... I'll have to look into it. There are actually a bunch of places by the college I go to... 

and that info was sick! Thanks dude, going to bookmark the site.

I know a few thermogenics, if you're staying in the states I can rattle off some names for you since certain products are only available in certain countries. Maybe if I can find a review as well on the product, I'll post that up as well.

You trying to drop a bunch of weight fast? Otherwise they are completely unnecessary. They're a tool like anything else. They do raise you metabolism a little. Think of car going 55 MPH instead of 50. It's a little better but insignificant in the big picture. I would only use them if I plateaud and was just short of my goal. Plus they're boner killers..lol

There is evidence that shows that Creatine has thermogenic capabilities. I don't know so much for the CLA

TBH, since including creatine my weight loss on the scale has stalled but I look significantly leaner and bigger. It's probably the water but the fat loss is picking up drastically. Then again I am able to do cardio now again as well so there are so many factors that I can't just pin it on the creatine or the CLA...

That is definitely it. Since creatine stimulates free fatty acid mobilization. Same goes with a cup of coffee, which I do every morning with a tablespoon of coconut oil. It stimulates fat loss because the first thing to hit your system is fat. So the only thing your body is looking to use is what is available, which is fat. Also a glass of wine a day gets my metabolism going, specifically resveratrol.

So if you put creamer in your coffee you're fucked? 

Wine actually does that as well?

What's resveratrol?

What I do is I'll have my black coffee in the morning and then I'll take some CLA and Multivitamin and Fish Oils. Eat my breakfast, hit the gym and then I'll have my creatine. I have noticed a drastic improvement with it. The only thing not going down is the weight itself.

The creatine as well is "Creapure" or just creatine by ALLMAX I believe, nothing fancy.

Well think about it. Coffee usually starts at the begining day. 

The creamer might have a slew of chemicals that can cause a crazy defensive reaction in the body. A natural defense for the body to do with chemicals it doesn't recognize is convert it into fat. But some chemicals like msg usually don't get absorbed. They cause damage such as destroying the "glue" between intestinal cells called gap junctions. Once these are open other larger particles that pass through the intestines can get in. Now this particle and can reach the brain and lets say block a glucose receptor, one that would allow the fuel to get to the brain. Lets say that were to occur over and over, and you got yourself ALZHEIMERS. Bang. Went off on a huge tangent. But now you can understand that when you take something that is foreign, or you don't know about, the long term damage to the gastrointestinal system can lead to problems in other systems in the body.

I personally don't eat till 12:00 pm because of intermittent fasting, and it allows me to continue working in my sympathetic nervous system. 

Hm this is the point of "bulletproof" coffee, eh? Put butter in it (fat) not sugar or creamer. This actually makes a lot of sense, shit! Yeah I don't eat till about 2pm or so, but I def put creamer in my coffee. 

The only time I ever eat before 12pm as well is just when I'm up at like 5-6am and have no other choice (Work, travel, etc.) 

Do you fellas count fiber towards your carbohydrate intake at all? I usually do, but I'm starting to think I shouldn't. Conflicting opinions all over the net on this.

Fiber is a Carbohydrate. But it isn't absorbed along with the other macros. But it is ESSENTIAL to basal metabolic rate. Good thing you mentioned that. Cause fiber is real important for weight loss. But not too much