Wow.. so many crazy "ramifications" of this video

I think the concept of conformity plays a big part in these "hidden camera" projects.

So when the older guy starts to shout at the black guy the other people are more likely to stay rather than walking on.

The thing with the girl is actually really interesting. They took an "inocent blonde girl" for this and she was well dressed.

Woh. this is crazy. 

Firstly, I would love to see one more clip where they have a woman minority, to contast the white, blonde haired girl- to see if it's a "woman" thing or a "minority" thing. Also, it's a small difference but the minoritie's shirt was an "XXXL" shirt and had that "baggy" look, so I would have appreciated them keeping that more consistent. 

But furthermore, It seems like the issue here is an interesting one. Is the solution to become more trusting of everyone, or less trusting of everyone? Or more trusting of minorities and less trusting of others. 

In any event, even if we were to come to some sort of understanding of how the problem should be solved- how do you go about solving this kind of issue? This isn't as easy as simply not saying anything... becuase that's not the issue- the issue is internal. 

SImply not saying anything, is the equivilent of getting really solid outter game while not changing your internal game. It's not going to help, in the long-run. 

Also- the solution to this is fucking way tougher than people think. Even if you think you're not racist at all, you are. Everyone is. It's basically impossible not to be, on some level. I took a test like two years ago and I'm hugely racist against black people. 

But the main issue I see is that if I were to go to a psychologist, today, and tell him/her, "Hey I don't want to be racist anymore"- the solution would be super lengthy, incomplete and, in all honesty, probably just that particular doctor's spitball of an idea. There is no actionable way, currently, to solve the deep-rooted nature of something like this. 

It's just a fact of being a part of society- so the "solution" involves changing the way society functions, which is a huge undertaking and would involve changing the way media portrays different groups of people, changing the casual jokes we tell eachother (even when you make a funny racist joke you are perpetuating this- I'm not saying stop making racist jokes but I am saying that those jokes are absolutely part of the larger, cultural problem), it would involve changing the very dynamics of the way neighborhoods are structured in this country (You see more white people in rich neighborhoods- whether you like it or not, this shapes how you think/feel about them. period), it would involve figuring out a way to bring more minorities into the middle class, even if it means decreaisng the overall wealth of other groups of people. 

It's such a ridiculously overwhelming problem that, for me, this is the stuff I ignore and move onto other stuff because I can't spend the time or mental energy thikning about it- it takes too much out of me. 

Also- the "fact" of the matter was that the actors were stealing the bikes. The guy straight up told the man, "Yes, I'm stealing this bike"- so it's absolutely right for them to call the cops or take matters into their own hands.

So, in this particular situation, it simply is a matter of being "less trusting" of the other people. 

I'd be curious to see this video done where the actors lie and say that it's their bike. That would be a great followup video.

yhh i'm a black dude. when i walk into a club with all black people i know it's gonna be trouble, i actually prefer one with a lot of white faces. weird huh?

Oh damn Gogo. Yeah I had to beat the fuck out of some black dude because of that exact same scenario 

haha that's funny

I actually had a lot of thoughts on this video- would be cool to have a legit conversation about it. 

Anyone else actually down?

Yeah but I was sort of headed in the other direction. You seemed to me to be almost numb to what was actually happening.. you were just curious to test different racial/gender types, and discuss the "philosophical" solution to it. That wasn't the experience I was having with the video. What blew my fucking mind was how absolutely horrid the black kid got treated. I could not believe it. I've always been of the opinion that people blaming "racism" for their problems, just like everything else, is just an excuse people use to justify not having to move their fucking ass. But that video showed that that is simply not true. That was so ugly

Totally not trying to imply you're heartless or anything here (even though you actually are pure angel-haired evil), but yeah when I saw that it almost turned me off to the discussion lol. 

lol that was such a ridiculous oversimplification and clear "selective reading" of what I said. What a joke

ALso- you say he was treated "horribly" but like.... he literally told them, "Yes, I'm stealing this bike".... That's why I'd be curious to see a clip where he lied and said it was his.

If some dude was stealing your bike.... what would you do?

Oh you liked it. Admit it

Aw man. Don't you remember when I got my bike stolen last year? I canvassed the entire 6 block neighborhood radius, asking everyone I saw until I finally got a lead, found the bike and got it back. But yeah if you're asking me what I would do in the same scenario as those people.. I would actually probably have the opposite reaction. The white kid I'd probably boot him in the fucking ass and kick him out of there, the girl I would make her stop and probably use it as an excuse to escalate honestly (lol), and the black kid I would probably be sympathetic while still making him stop. The white kid I'd probably report. The girl, shit I dunno I'd honestly try to insta-date her. 

Okay, so if was a world of "manwhore's" then we would have the same problem just different specifics... awesome

Anyway- my point is that, I actually didn't see the black guy being treated that "wrong"- it was purely when put into contrast with how the others were treated, that it was clear that there is an "issue"- but the issue was not, in my oppinion, how the black man was being treated in this particualr, isolated, situation. Mainly because he straight up told them he's stealing the bike, so sure, I don't see much wrong with people coming together to stop that. 

So, for me, it wasn't that the black guy was being treated wrong but rather the issue was that they weren't all being treated equally. If all three of them had been treated the way the black dude was, I would have been like, "oh nice, that was an appropriate response". 

So, for me, yeah, I think the point of the video was absolutely to point out a more overarching issue within society, so my natural instinct was to go to that second level (not saying you're dumb or anything- even though you totally are a shiny bald headed lil dumbo ; ) ) and 1. Make my best effort to pinpoint what the issue is (or at least start a discussion about it) and 2. Make my best effort at coming up with a solution (or at least start a discussion about it)

No what I'm saying is I actually sympathize against racism. I wouldn't allow myself to have any kind of instintual "socially-inclined" reaction to it. Unless I could actually see that the black kid was a piece of shit then yes I'd be the same way, he would not get that bike and I'd verbally tear into his ass at the least. 

Ed Fitzsimmons lol...

Ok that's a decent point I agree, but what shocked me more than anything was the sneering disdain some of those people had for the kid. They were so vicious with their attitudes. The old man, and someone else I don't remember exactly which. They would have lynched him on the spot back in the day. But I think my main point here is that that kind of treatment directed towards young kids and adults growing up, is super destructive. It breeds serious limiting beliefs into them. They never become self-empowered. They've got this self-perpetuating powerful burden of feeling held back and powerless in the face of outside society. 

Yes and what I didn't like, was that you seemed to imply in your first post that I A) Didn't see this or B) didn't feel that same shit

And I actually took a lot of offense to that and it made me pretty mad that you would call me out like that because I feel that tremendously and I absolutely agree with it. 

But my way of approaching it, based on the fact that I spent a good portion of my life studying philosophy (which may be different than yours but it doesn't mean I feel it any less or don't see it) is to make a concerted effort to come up with a solution or at the very least a discussion about a solution. 

because you can discuss the problem as much as you want but as soon as you enter the realm of trying to find a solution - it is automatically going to become "philosophical" as you put it. 

​mind blowing

the purpose of this experiment is to show that racism is still a major problem.

100 people did nothing when a white boy was stealing a bike even when he TOLD them (most of them never even asked him)

but they had to stop after 10 or so people for the black kid because EVERY one of them came up to stop him.

Their automatic assumption was that he was a criminal while it was the opposite for the white kid

Racism is alive and well and deeply rooted in the system. but when people who are effected by it complain (or even just point it out) to those that aren't, they are told to stop being victims and get over it.

I think if all this video does is open the blinkered eyes of those fortunate enough to not be discriminated against, it's a good thing.

also check out louis ck on historical context:

http://youtu.be/derzWWYf3-w

and that's one solution (making people aware there's a problem)

Right. It's clear there is racism. 

I guess, part of what I also was trying to do was start a line of discussion that wouldn't be a million posts all going over the same issue- like yes, anyone who watches this video, "gets it", there is racism. It was shitty how the black kid was treated. The white kid was treated differently. The white girl was treated even more differently. 

Personally, rehasing the obvious is kinda boring to me. So let's take this discussion to a different level. 

Idc if it's the direction I was taking it initially, but anything that takes it beyond, simply an outline of the plot-points of the video.

I think that's a bit of an attempt to strong arm the discussion in the direction you want. The other two users in this thread had the same take on it. 

I interpreted it the same way- it's hard not to. There is clearly racism and I see it daily and I know it exists and I've probably even partaken in it recently (not that I do it intentionally but most likely we all have). 

But let's move past a rehashing of the problem and look at what's causing it and what solutions are or how we handled the situations- All I'm saying is that this thread has a lot of potential and I would hate for it to become lost in a sea of people rehasing the same exact comment in different words. 

I feel your pain, and I understand your frustration but mate, you haven't taken it anywhere interesting.

You've simply said it's really complicated and it's really hard to find a solution. 

you've also said that even discussing a solution is philosophical masturbation, so you've ended that thread before it's begun!

"It's such a ridiculously overwhelming problem that, for me, this is the stuff I ignore and move onto other stuff because I can't spend the time or mental energy thikning about it- it takes too much out of me. "

At the risk of repeating myself, if you make people who don't think there's a problem look at their blind spots you start to change the way they think.

This is historically how social changes have happened. look at the treatment of women (in the west at least) now, compared to a hundred years ago.

People point out the blind spots, then more people, and gradually behaviour changes until it becomes socially retarded to continue with those attitudes.

haha, well to me, to be honest- I spent the past 4 years of my life studying philosophy in a pretty well regarded program, so when I say something is going to get "philosophical" I don't actually take that as a negative. 

Personally, I'd absolutely love to get into a philosophical discussion about race issues in this country - in fact I did it for an entire semester in college, where we studied this exact type of shit, including game theory and racial profiling and a whole host of different issues. 

I think you're def. right though, you have to open up people's blind spots to them, in order to get them to change. 

But here's the tricky part, when it comes to race: It's something that is SUPER SUPER subconscious: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/RegistrationComplete

So, with things like this, there are a lot of factors that play into building that "subconscious" thought process. 

Just to name a few:

1. Neighborhood breakdowns

2. Media's portrayal of different races

3. Historical Influence- both on a societal level, as well as on a personal level (how your parents/grandparents views effect your own views)

4. The simple fact that we tend to see other people, who look different, as less trust-worthy 

5. Jokes and other, small, "social cues"

Again- part of the issue that I see with racism is that, even if you bring someone's attention to it- most of the time, all that does is make that person want to say and do "the right thing"- like, "Oh, I would NEVER act that way" or "Oh, wow I can't believe that is the case, I would NEVER act that way in that situation"- when in reality they are still subconsciously racist and, when shit hits the fan, actually would still act in the way they say they wouldn't. 

Like cops who have to make a split second decision of who to shoot.There are plenty of cops who SWEAR by not being racist and truly don't think they are but then they take a test, similar to the one provided above, and all of a sudden it's coming out that in a split second decision they are slightly racist (Despite not taking racist action if they are given even slightly more time to think about the situation- it's engrained subconsciously in them- and this is a big issue, because those are the exact type of situations where you can't have racism playing a part. 

So my question is - Is the outright racism shown in this video, the same as the racism that the police offer has in that split second decision? LIke, is the root-cause of that racism, the same? 

If so- how do we change that?

I agree that turning people onto their blindspots can create change and this is important to do but it seems incomplete at best. It's def. a hugely important factor but how does one go about changing all the other factors that play into the subconscious and "split-second" racism that so many of us have? Becuase I think that it's this "split-second" or "Subconscious" racism that is the root-cause of the kind of horrible situation that played out in this video - it's just the natural end result. 

this racism discussion is boring.  why aren't you talking about how "horribly" the males were treated compared to the female?  not only did no one try to stop her, but those two old farts helped or offered to help her!

Yeah, I agree- I think there are a lot of "variables" that could be switched around to show some SUPER interesting stuff about this.  

and if you're going to make race the only variable, then you need the guys to dress the same, not "similar."  they have to sound the same and move the same.  the white kids pants are loose, but not baggy like the black kids.  the angle of the hat is different, as is the accent.  they don't even follow the same script. the white kid looks goofy and unsure of himself.  the black kid is moving like someone who is trying to draw attention to the fact that he's stealing something, aka acting extra shady.   the thing that should have tipped off the bystanders talking to the black kid is that he said, "sir" when telling the guy its not his bike. 

there's also the setting.  the bike is being stolen in a park that looks like its frequented by almost all white people.  i used to walk through a park named after a black historical figure on a daily basis in a neighborhood in which i was the minority.  i guarantee you that the outcomes would have been the opposite for the white guy and the black guy, but maybe the same for the girl depending on who saw her. 

Honestly we should do the exact experiment with a black and a white girl both wearing the exact same clothes. Secondly you have to see it in real life as media is often influenced. The editors cut those things so they are creating more emotions in every person... Or make something standing out.

Nice. Glad to see soemoen else found this stuff interesting as well - I'm headin out to a concert but I'll def. comment on this later. Super interesting.  

It may not be exactly true, but it's true enough.  The utter dismisal as race as something that can hold someone back is powerful don't change that.  I can't and do not want to change the color of my skin.  I know I'm black and I know people's perceptions of me.  The way I conduct myself and project myself will change and get better over time as I work on it.   My knowledge and intelligence will increase as I work on it.  There's goals that I have out of life and I'll acheive them, they will be impressive regardless of my "race."  If the color of my skin makes it so that, I have to be better/sharper/more effective in how I do what I do; I will be more bad ass for it.  Those are ideas were derived from stuff I have learned in the community RSD and you etc.   Don't allow racism to be used as an excuse.  FUCK THAT

Anyway the video wasn't suprising in the least bit, to me it was expected. There was a much better experiment on 60 minutes years ago that I've seen can't think of the name or anything.   How to change racism, I don't know.  It's definitely something that's in the back of my mind, but I'm currently more worried about gaining mastery over myself before I can work to effect change or tackle such a large problem IMO.

Makes me laugh cause of how privileged white girls are. It's obvious why you usually need to throw some shit at the "tens" (tens being a ten in their mind)

and yeah I agree with bg where he said even thinking about solving this stuff makes my head spin. I mean... Can we even mitigate that stuff within ourselves? Obviously this forum has an extremely disproportionate amount of ppl who can change their inner and outer but I feel like this shit runs deep within ourselves never mind society. 

My sister has lots of Asian friends. One of them is really shy and coy. Makes me think about ALL the conditioning she got to be that way. Down to the small jokes and even the fact I associate her shyness to her being Korean. Another one is overcompensatingly loud sometimes. She can overcome the conditioning but she still "knows" she should be another way. How am I conditioned to be  from my friends, parents, society?

yeah I don't even know where to start.. Some reason why I don't have the interest I have in politics I used to have. When I started learning about politics it was clear there was one right way. Then when I learned more its like... Oh shit, it's more complicated than it seems. These decisions are hard.. I sure as shit couldn't make them. 

it would have been interesting hearing the black actor's reaction to his treatment. he was probably scared shitless.

@Gogo probs not.  He knew that the po-leece knew what was up and he was surrounded by a bunch of white people who weren't going to do shit

Here's how to solve the "racism" problem. Three potential solutions:

1.  Build a time machine.  Go back in time and make sure that African and arab slave traders do not send slaves to north america.  Also, make sure that no one fights a legal battle to make the indentured servant contract for the term of life and indefinitely.  If that fails, then go further back and make sure that the races stay in their respective places of origin.

2.  Change human nature.  Rewire our brains so that we don't see differences.  Eliminate the mode of thinking that creates "in-group" and "out-group" mentalities.  Make us forget about the concept of "the other." 

3.  Force people to bang other people of different "races" such that in a few generations everyone will be some shade of brown. 

I think the fourth solution is best: take Manwhore Training to uncondition yourself and change the way you respond to stimuli and express yourself :b But this is not for the old cranky white people this would be for the black kid to make him hold himself better and not project himself as a target and a criminal so badly. Because like someone mentioned (and it was an amazing point), he REALLY acted liked he was up to no good, and was weak in response to the reactions he was getting from people. The white chick was GAMING.. the entire time she had a vibe like "hey if you help me out I might just suck your cock.."

Human nature dictates that you "learn" from your environment and categorize things so you can make decisions faster next time. This includes things like "racism", recognizing "confidence" in the actions of what others are doing, etc. What hurt me/bothered me to watch was that kid did not know how to handle the situation he was in with those people and was making it worse. Young people aren't taught that sort of thing.. so they develop mental models of the world, and therefore behavioral sets, that are self-perpetuating and WEAK. That kid is not a self-empowered kid, that is a scared kid, with absolutely no chance of changing that.

If you ever read accounts of how things were back in the days of slavery, you would read how they completely conditioned African Americans to reflect their "lot" in life. They were forced to look down while speaking to their "masters", could not make eye contact with people otherwise they would be hit, had to adopt a capitulating tonality, and were forced to affirm over and over again that they were weak and stupid. Hence your "Uncle Tom" archetype.

The good news is that shit actually IS changing. It really is.

No. I mean he was probably scared shitless because he knows how racism thrives, and i'm sure it wasn't part of the script to degrade himself as a supplicant to all those white folk...it was almost a reflex action for him. I think that's what MW is getting at

Also it's a difficult call to say the white kid handled himself better as he was pretty much left alone all the time he was trying to steal the bike. he had to keep escalating the tools he was using and still no one bothered him, whereas the black kid was surrounded by a mob instantly.

and if you watch the footage above the black kid was surprised and dissapointed. the cultural mind-fuck hits everybody

The racism and sexism isn't what interests me, it's the bystander effect. I did a little project on this exact shit like two weeks ago for class. Seems to me like our world has turned into a bunch of lazy, "beta's" that have no desire to take action on...well what they know needs to be given attention. Wether it applies to bikes being stolen or politics, standing around and waiting for others to solve problems doesn't get shit done.

I'm happy I became aware of this pattern, because it's easy to fall into. You can't rely on anyone else to get the job done, it is simply the responsibilty that the people like us must take. Thats alpha-ness right there.

The bystander effect is exactly why our country does all this foolish shit, and not enough people speak out to stop it. Our country is for the people right? why don't the people assume their god given resposibility. The freedom is there, just hindered by social constraints.

Never mind my narrative-trap of a response, I just found it interesting

My orginal answer that the black kid was dressed extra thug (tilt of the hat, oversized t-shirt and pants) and was moving real shady like--his body language was drawing attention to himself in a negative way, whereas the white kid looks like he's either confused/a shitty thief or just doing his job.  That shit matters and its why I was irritated with the top/bottom comparison where the narrator said, "remember both the actors dress in a similar way and are about the same age."  Definitely not the same at all.  The black kid is looking around like he's on lookout and worried about being caught but the white kid is focused on the bike lock and his tools.  If little homie was dressed like brother mouzone it would be a different scene all together (brother mouzone would never be caught dead on a bike like that but anyways). 

I don't know what other people are taught growing up, but I grew up in opposite land.  I was the poor white kid on the bus who was made fun of by the black kids because I was wearing kmart clothes and shoes while they were wearing triple fat goose and tims.  Our family doctor when I was little was a black man--the first dude to ever touch my balls.  I believe he is still my mother's gyno.  These kids had college-educated older siblings and their parents drove bmws. 

I went to three different colleges for undergrad and each one had at least one required course that was all about race.  In one of the classes I was like, "What the fuck I've never oppressed anyone and all of my ancestors came to the U.S around the turn of the century" (i.e., after the civil war).  It didn't help at the time that I had super short (1/8inch not shaved) hair, but people in class were calling me "neo-nazi" and other nasty things because I dared to question the professor when he started spouting off like you are here. 

This race discussion and others like it are incredibly uninteresting to me, especially since its all "black and white."  Where are the latinos?  There are more of them in this country than blacks.  What about asians?  "Oh shit you're late for your violin lesson, well go ahead and take that bike."  What about the others that don't fall into those tidy categories? 

Yeah Archangel's perspective on this stuff is so damn upside-down lol. 

Was...I've done more thinking about this and related issues than most people, and have come to understand the incredibly complex nature of everything having to do with race.  Its equally retarded to state that racial issues are "cultural" as it is to claim they are all "biological."  Besides thinking on this stuff from an academic/philosophical angle I've also lived various places with different mixes of different people--from a "Whitopia" to neighborhoods in cities in which I was definitely in the small minority.  I've come to view people through their own behavior and let them speak for themselves.  Interestingly enough, I'm most critical of fellow white people.  But I'm also coming from the perspective of trying to understand people and why they might behave that way--I know now that much of "bad" behavior comes from fear, insecurity, or shitty parenting. 

My biggest picture perspective is that the elites who control both the government and the media use issues such as race, religion, sex, and the economy to trigger fear; and in fearing we remain divided.  While we are divided they go about their merry way living high off of our sweat and tears. 

Oh right I didn't mean your perspective now, should have made that way clearer. I was referring to what you went through as a kid. 

Yes fear and politics.. derp. 

Honestly I don't even think it's the politicians' faults. It's simply human nature to be scared little bitches. Take women for instance.. the reason why guys have such problems with trying to date them, the reason they have bitch shields and attitudes.. is because women are so afraid. They're protecting themselves

Full docku here: http://vimeo.com/61857758

Yeeeeeah, but.. "they" can never control everyone, and honestly I don't think they're trying to.. they're just offering an easy way out to the sheeples. 

That's a really fuckin' good pic. Do they have one of a penis doing the same thing? 

What about a vagina.. 

I got a brand new pair of lollerskates.  Re:  the image, I googled "food for thought" and that was the best pic on the results page