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Oh SHIT - I don't recommend books very often... but... the Challenger Sale

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Joined: 11/16/2013

This particular book is the single best thing I've ever read when it comes to sales. It also has HUGE interpaly with "Game". Like, I'm not joking, this book needs to be in your top 5 starting today. i literally don't ever recommend books, because I think there are so many out there, but this one... I think the best way to describe it is simply to say:

"It's The Truth"

It explains why "nice guys" don't win in business. If you think that sales is about "Building Relationships".... You're wrong.  Exactly like how it plays out in game, relationships, when it comes to sales, are a RESULT of the close, not the driver of it. 

The three most important attributes of the best sales-people in the world:

1. Teach - for differentiation 

2. Tailor - for resonance

3. Take Control - of the sale

But yeah, it's interesting cause I never built strong relationships in my entire career.... they always just sort of happened because of the solutions i was providing my customers. I am masterful at taking control of the sale and the conversation - that's something I'm naturally good at. I have pretty unbelievable frame control. But I'm not that amazing at the "teach" and "tailor" approaches. 

For anyone who has taken Manwhore drill-coaching, you'll notice that what he teaches falls pretty squarely in-line with those 3 qualities. Amazing book. If you are in business in any capacity, you need to read this literally today.

That is all. 

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Joined: 04/20/2013
so what's the name bro lol I

so what's the name bro lol

I searched for those 3 aspects you mentioned and found this: The Challenger Sale 

this the one?

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Joined: 11/16/2013
haha oh shit- i totally

haha oh shit- i totally forgot the MOST important part. 

You nailed it though - The Challenger Sale. 

It's fucking incredible. And it just goes so far against the grain. Like everyone thinks that relationships are huge - ESPECIALLY in more complex solution sales, but literally i've been saying for the past like two years that relationshps don't matter.  

The interplay between "Game" and "Sales" in this book is CRAZY though - like there's literally a quote about how customers will say things like this:

"I haev a great relationship with that sales rep, but I actually buy my products from a different company because they provide more value"..... like are you kidding me?! haha

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Joined: 01/18/2012
Uh oh.  Hey what about the

Uh oh. 

Hey what about the audio cd think that would rock? 

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Joined: 11/16/2013
Interesting  question- why do

Interesting- why do you ask about the audio cd?

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Joined: 01/18/2012
Well I think that's obvious.

Well I think that's obvious. This is a product about controlling the sale.. his delivery of the content ought to be fire 

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The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away. - William Shakespeare & Pablo Picasso

I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student

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Joined: 11/16/2013
Interesting. That's def

Interesting. That's def possible. if he wasn't able to deliver the material well, would that call into question its validity in your eyes?

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Joined: 02/09/2015
Ha. Found a book by Grant

Ha. Found a book by Grant Cardone "Sell or Be Sold" which breaks down this model too. Was thinking the same thing about game and the guys at work who sell the most and game.

Challenger holds the frame strongly enough to make people question their initial frames and by successfully doing so builds the rapport/relationship when you help people see things differently and some other stuff. Thanks for the book recommendation.

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Joined: 02/07/2015
Gotta check out that book

Gotta check out that book

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Joined: 01/18/2012
pottedflowers

pottedflowers wrote:
Interesting. That's def possible. if he wasn't able to deliver the material well, would that call into question its validity in your eyes?

No. I would just email him and tell him he needs to get into my coaching program. 

__________________

The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away. - William Shakespeare & Pablo Picasso

I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student

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Manwhore

Manwhore wrote:
pottedflowers wrote:
Interesting. That's def possible. if he wasn't able to deliver the material well, would that call into question its validity in your eyes?

No. I would just email him and tell him he needs to get into my coaching program. 

haha tru. Yeah, I actually have no idea what the CD sounds like but I do know the guy is a researcher, so his presentation skilllz may or may not need a lil polishing 

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Joined: 12/03/2012
Thanks for the

Thanks for the recommendation.

I'm reading SPIN Selling right now, so fucking good.  Basically he talks about the difference between small and complex sales, and how you need to really create explicit needs for the client to buy.

Kind of sucked since I did a pitch before starting to read the book, and I didn't do half the stuff he talked about....  lol.  The client is still going to get back to me, and also just asked for a web design quote so I still have a solid chance.  But its crazy to think about how much value there's in a 10$ book, that it could help you close five figure sales. 

I'm going to check The Challenger Sale out after I read SPIN selling.  

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Joined: 12/03/2012
I just checked the official

I just checked the official site-

http://www.executiveboard.com/exbd/sales-service/challenger-sale/index.page

and it has an endorsement from the author of SPIN selling.  

I'm going to add this to my amazon cart.

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Joined: 01/18/2012
Yeah ordered it too. After

Yeah ordered it too. After recent events it's obvious I need to change up my "tactics". 

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The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away. - William Shakespeare & Pablo Picasso

I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student

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Joined: 11/16/2013
Yeah, it's interesting - one

Yeah, it's interesting - one of the main tenants is that basically instead of going in and asking a bunch of questions to get at what the customer's pain is, you do a ton of research beforehand to figure out what that pain is beforehand and then use what's called, "Hypothesis Selling" to basically tell the client what the issues are that they're facing. 

But then after you do that, and the customer acknowlledges those are issues they're facing, you basically itnroduce a new perspective that connects those challenges to a bigger opportunity than they even realized they had. - basically the whole goal is you don't want them saying, "Oh yeah I totally agree".... you want to get the customer saying, "Huh, I never thought of it that way before"

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Joined: 11/16/2013
It's pretty cool cause it's

It's pretty cool cause it's basically the only way to really sell someone "The Vision". When you go in with a more "Solution Selling" approach you're going to figure out what their current problem is, and the issue with that in the corporate world is that most likely they already are working on ways to solve it. They already have a budget, maybe already have an RFP etc. 

But by coming in this way you can paint the picture, and sell the vision. The life-cycle of the sale will be longer, but deal sizes will be much bigger.

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Joined: 01/18/2012
pottedflowers wrote: Yeah,

pottedflowers wrote:
Yeah, it's interesting - one of the main tenants is that basically instead of going in and asking a bunch of questions to get at what the customer's pain is, you do a ton of research beforehand to figure out what that pain is beforehand and then use what's called, "Hypothesis Selling" to basically tell the client what the issues are that they're facing. 

But then after you do that, and the customer acknowlledges those are issues they're facing, you basically itnroduce a new perspective that connects those challenges to a bigger opportunity than they even realized they had. - basically the whole goal is you don't want them saying, "Oh yeah I totally agree".... you want to get the customer saying, "Huh, I never thought of it that way before"

Interesting. That's always been my selling strategy. Whether I was selling Dyson vacuum cleaners or appliances. 

__________________

The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away. - William Shakespeare & Pablo Picasso

I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student

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yeah, it's def. a tougher

yeah, it's def. a tougher sell sometimes, but if you can paint the picture correctly and really get the client invested in the vision you can basically sell them on anything. 

I mean, it's basically the same shit that cult leaders and other crazy ppl with followings do. They focus on getting extreme buy-in for a particualr problem//vision and then escalate it and put it into a perspective these ppl haven't heard before and just sell potential followers HARD on their view of the world.... then it's only once the followers are convinced of the VIEW that the leader starts to even introduce himself as a potential leader or solutino to it all

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Joined: 01/18/2012
Yeah as OP mentioned, that's

Yeah as OP mentioned, that's pretty much exactly how I did sales and it's even how I handle the wiminz now. I REFRAME the context of the situation to fit one that's uh.. mutually beneficial. Lol. But any guy that's good with women has to do that. It's just that it so fairly falls square on how these rules are defined in The Challenger Sale as a sales tactic. I didn't realize they'd typefied it. What I would do is basically EDUCATE the customer in very powerful and emotionally compelling ways. Honestly it was the secret to my sales success. This way I could tell them HOW to see the product (through MY eyes), and then be able to help guide them towards the right purchase. 

When I was actually in sales ​I was by far the best- in pretty much every part of it. And I definitely greatly enjoyed working with people but I wanted to move on to bigger and greater things. Like what I'm doing now :D 

__________________

The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away. - William Shakespeare & Pablo Picasso

I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student

Have you read the "Best Of MW's Forum" threads on Verbal Seduction, Physical Escalation & Sexual Mastery? Begin your education: Best of Manwhore.org/forum:

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Joined: 01/18/2012
Also.. as a military officer

Also.. as a military officer I had the unique opportunity to see leadership and the true role of authority in sometimes its most purest forms. Men in a hierarchy striving to achieve the same mission, or the simple inherent "I will do as you say", to "I am an out of control and trained, dangerous human being, what will you do?" 

__________________

The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away. - William Shakespeare & Pablo Picasso

I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student

Have you read the "Best Of MW's Forum" threads on Verbal Seduction, Physical Escalation & Sexual Mastery? Begin your education: Best of Manwhore.org/forum:

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Joined: 01/18/2012
A lot of what I'm doing

A lot of what I'm doing even now for my business follows this same idea. Guys aren't aware of the true nature of learning game. They think they can read a book or watch some rsdn videos and "have game". No that's completely BULLSHIT. Lol. It's not like recruits for the U.S. Army show up and the government hands them a gun and a uniform and says "Hey did you watch Saving Private Ryan? Good! You're a fucking Soldier now go fight our wars and go into dangerous situations and kill people. See ya" HELL no. We trained them first. 

Same thing with game. It's verbal game training, vocal projection training, and all sorts of "man to woman" type conversational technique exercises I have to put a guy through. A lot of times I even have to educate them into understanding how the "process" of game development actually occurs. 

In fact most guys come into the program having no idea about the true nature of "game". Even the guys that think they know 'cuz they watched some YouTube vids. Dead fucking wrong 3/4ths the time. Though there are definitely some that surprise me. Some guys come into the program having a lot of natural self-awareness.. and an awareness of what the gap looks like between themselves and women. But a lot don't and it obviously makes my job harder, lol. It's sort of similar to the "cup already full" parable. 

__________________

The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away. - William Shakespeare & Pablo Picasso

I go in and I'm crisp, clean and my vocals are fucking coming out like music. - Anonymous MW student

Have you read the "Best Of MW's Forum" threads on Verbal Seduction, Physical Escalation & Sexual Mastery? Begin your education: Best of Manwhore.org/forum:

The ONLY Real "Drills-Based" Seduction Training:

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Joined: 12/03/2012
"The Challenger profile

"The Challenger profile focuses on building constructive tension in customer interactions to push the customer out of his comfort zone."

"Challengers by comparison thrive in ambiguity.  They know how to navigate it and understand how it can be leveraged to their advantage.  They display a remarkable level of comfort with silence during the customer conversation, as well as with keeping negotiation points and customer objections open and on the table longer than one normally would."

This books is pretty awesome, and it relates very strongly with game. 

The whole teaching for differentation and tailoring is probably what I'm more naturally better at.  I'm definately weaker at the taking control aspect.  Assertiveness is something I need to work on, especially in business and sales.

The author also goes into how the teaching pitch has to choregraphed correctly and deliverd in a manner that hits both the emotional and logical parts of the customers brain.  

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Joined: 12/03/2012
"There's a very strong

"There's a very strong emotional component of a well-designed teaching pitch.   Frankly, this isn't much about delivering a formal presentation as it is about telling a compelling story.  Ultimately, the goal is to take the customers on a roller-coaster ride, leading first to a rather dark place before showing them the light at the end of the tunnel, and the light, of course is your solution."